Round Symposium:
THINK OF OUR FUTURE
Prof. Murakami:
We have discussed mainly on peace these two days. After these discussion, we know we have still faced on the problematic situations of the world. I want to get a short comments from each Nobel laureates again; what do you think about the most effective approach to solve the current chains of conflicts and hates?
The Dalai Lama:
I think I may touch on the division and differences of religious faith. I believe that whether we accept religion or not is up to the individual. But once we accept religious faith, we should be serious and sincere. That means once we accept religion, then you should practice your belief, and your religious faith should be part of your life.
In that case, all major religious traditions, in spite of their different philosophies, all carry the same message of love and compassion and on that basis, the spirit of forgiveness, tolerance, reconciliation, and also contentment, self-discipline. So on these levels, all major religions are the same.
So if anyone accepts these major religious traditions and practice and follows them properly, then automatically that believer can be a compassionate person. Once you practice and implement what you believe sincerely and seriously, then you gain some deeper experience. Then once you get some deeper experience of one’s own religious practice, I think it is easier to see the value of other traditions.
Now the problem is of one religion/one truth. In the past that was very relevant and very important, when people from different traditions remained more or less isolated. But in India today, we are heavily interconnected, where for thousands of years different traditions lived together. So in terms of the society, there is no longer one religion/one truth. This is relevant at the society level, where certain truths and certain religions are a reality. So today we need the 2000-year-old Indian tradition of religious pluralism.
Now we have to make differences between faith and respect. I am Buddhist. I have faith toward Buddha, but I equally have deep respect and admiration and appreciation of other traditions. Because from these other traditions millions of human beings have gotten immense benefit in the past, today and the future.
As far as a philosophical point of view is concerned, there are fundamental differences—basically theistic religions and non-theistic religions. But that doesn’t matter, because human beings have so many different dispositions. To certain people, a certain belief is more effective. To certain people, the concept of God the Creator is more effective, more suitable. So because among humanity there are so many different dispositions, we therefore need different approaches in order to become compassionate human beings.
So when we find differences in the philosophical field, I ask what is the purpose of these different traditions, different philosophies. They have the same purpose—to have a happy life. So there’s no problem.
Then lastly, yesterday and today many people heard many ideas and concepts. Now hearing is the first stage. The second level is contemplation and analysis. Once you develop that second level, on the basis of hearing and on the basis of analytical meditation, that brings you more conviction. That conviction should become familiar to you, so that eventually these concepts become part of your life. Without particular effort, all these ideas will automatically come in your mind, particularly when you face some problem. Immediately then, these concepts become very very helpful.
Thank you. That’s all.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
I sometimes wonder why we human beings find it so difficult to share. God has created us with a vast range of differences, really, in order for us to know that no one person can ever be self-sufficient. I sometimes wonder why are we upset that I am a Christian and that the Dalai Lama is a Buddhist? Is God any less glorified by the fact that a Mahatma Gandhi is a Hindu? Do we really think that God thinks, “Oh, the Dalai Lama, hmm, he’s such a wonderful guy, what a pity he’s not a Christian. And so, Dalai Lama or Mahatma Gandhi, I wish I could let you come into Heaven, but poor guys, you have to become Christians first.”
No, nonsense! I mean, total nonsense! If God is the source of all goodness, as we believe, then the goodness that is in a Dalai Lama, that is in a Mahatma Gandhi, that is in a Mother Teresa, all of these are part of this incredible incredible beauty—the holiness of God that actually no one faith can ever be able to manifest totally. Because actually religion is in many ways a human construct. Many times we think that religion equals God. No! God is far greater than any faith could ever be able to comprehend.
When we fought against apartheid, you walked holding on the one side a Muslim imam’s hand. On the other you held the hand of a Jewish rabbi. And walking with you a Hindu priest. And all of us were saying that this apartheid, was evil, according to the tenets of all our faiths. There is no faith that I know that says it is a good thing to steal. There is no faith that I know that says it is a good thing to lie. There is no faith that I know that says it is a good thing to oppress.
No! And as the Dalai Lama says, all human beings are precious. Some Hindu put it strongly, “That Thou art, you are the Divine.” And the Christian says ultimately, “My deepest longing is to be aware that God dwells in me and I in God.” All say that human life finds its ultimate fulfillment in the divine. Wouldn’t it be so beautiful if we looked at the best aspects of every religion? Christians would be very very upset if anyone said about the Ku Klux Klan—that is what Christians are. We say, “No! They are an aberration.”
Betty Williams:
I was thinking while His Holiness was speaking, inside of us probably is a little bit of everything—Buddhism, Shintoism, Christianity, and the whole package that goes with that can make us better people. But I have to be absolutely realistic here. Many ears ago in Ireland, an Anglican num called Sister Anna, came to see me, and said, “You know, we really should open an integrated school.” And I said, “Absolutely. We have got to begin education our children together—Catholic and Protestant.”
We wanted to do it in a great hurry because the need was so great, so we got portable cabins, and we tried to enlist through our peace groups those mothers who would be prepared to let their children go to this brand new idea. Do you know, we had to fight the Catholic Church to allow us to take children into our school. And we had to fight the Protestant Church to allow us to take children into our school.
But in the end, the mothers were the brave ones, because they defied both religions and said, “Listen, my child needs to know a little more of this! Our plan was that we weren’t going to teach any religion in the school, but we would bring every religion in to talk to the children. This way, the children could get a much deeper understanding of what Buddhism was, of what Shintoism was, of what Catholicism was, what Muslims were and what they thought—just the whole spectrum of education.
The morning the school opened, I prayed all night and was exhausted. I was standing with my little girl in my hand, saying “Oh, please, send the children.” Anyway, 11 children turned up, six Catholics and five Protestants. And the media were there. And I prayed, “Oh, please send one more Protestant, Just one more.” Because if not, the media would have reported that.
At the very last minute, this woman comes walking up to me holding this little girl by the hand. And she said, “I don’t know whether I’m doing the right thing or not, but I think you are. So here’s my child.”
And I said, “I hate to ask you this, but what religion are you?” And she said, “I’m Protestant.”
Allah be praised!! I hugged her so tight I thought I nearly broke her ribs.
When we started our school, we also said we were going to give the highest quality of education. Our headmistress had been a professor at Queens University and she took the job for very little money. Then the school started to grow, and once things got settled a little more, I said that it was time to bring in the other religions. I’m very proud to say, your Holiness, that Buddhism was the first introduction to other religions that our children had because a Buddhist monk came in to address the children. And this little boy came over to me and he said, “Mrs. Williams, is he a Catholic Buddhist or a Protestant Buddhist?”
So I believed deep in my heart that tears without action are wasted sentiment. Peace is not going to drop from the sky. You’ve got to work for it day in and day out, minute by minute. But unless we educate our children in the classroom to other religions, then they will never understand them. I’m pleased to say that our school now has 1200 pupils and a waiting list of children in utero. And these children are learning all religions.
So you begin with that beautiful little mind that is so pliable. Children are like little sponges. You throw a little knowledge at them, and they’ll ask for more. “Why?” Take the time to explain. And when we build our city in Basilicatta, we will bring all religions in. As our children have an overall knowledge of how a Muslim feels, how a Christian feels, how a Buddhist feels, how a Shinto feels, it’s the only way we’re going to change the education system completely, to allow children to know me, His Holiness, the Archbishop.Thank you.
Question: First thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all your comments. Today I don’t have religion, I don’t have a name. I’m a Latino woman. My heart is broken because between Mexico and the United States they are building a wall, a 700 mile wall between Mexico and the United States. Americans are building a new apartheid between Mexico and the United States. We are facing a very horrible problem and we need your help. We need international cooperation. We need abontu. That’s what we need in Latin America. And I need your help because thousands of women and men are illegal in the United States. They are treated like slaves. They are treated not like human beings. We need dignity. We need pride. This wall is being built by Mexicans, by Latin Americans. I’m not a woman today. I’m not a Christian. I’m a Latino and a Mexican who needs help. I am talking from my heart and I am talking for my people. I’m so far from my home and I am suffering for them. And we need your help. Please! Please try to do something. We really need your help and cooperation. Thank you.
Betty Williams:
That’s a powerful pain you’re carrying around for one so young. But know that we are working.
In a couple of weeks I will be in Guatemala with Rigoberto Menchu Tum, who is one of my heroes. You are not forgotten as Latinos. Don’t ever think that. Rigoberto and myself work very closely together for the Latino women—and we will continue to do that. What you need to do, darling, is to use all that pain you are feeling. That is a powerful pain that is crippling you. That is why I asked Rusti, my executive assistant to go give you a hug.
You need to be with women who understand the depth of your pain. And there are hundreds of them in this room. When this Summit is over and we leave you, you will not be alone because you released some of that pain today. You will have faith. And you will heal. Just please know, you are not forgotten. We are working for the Latino women as hard as we can.
The Dalai Lama:
May I respond to that lady? Ultimately, as Buddha stated, oneself is one’s own master. So ultimately, you have to work. There are helpers, thousands, hundreds of thousands, good people, warm-hearted people. So you have a lot of helpers. But the main work is on your own shoulders. For that reason, you should not lose any hope. You should be optimistic and self-confident. According to my own experience, and also people like Nelson Mandela or Bishop Tutu, in spite of many difficulties, they never lost their self-confidence. So therefore, self-confidence is extremely important. That is what I wanted to share with you.
Prof. Murakami:
Lastly, we want to ask three of you as Nobel Laureates, what do you think Japanese or people of Hiroshima should do in the future? Can you give us some advise?
The Dalai Lama:
Broadly speaking, I don't know.
The other day I met a Japanese writer. I just explained about the American Peace Corps. I like that kind of volunteer work, where you go to a different country with the spirit of reconciliation and give your skill. Go to a different area, particularly Latin America or Africa and help them at a practical level, like education or AIDS. Since you are one of the most developed Asian countries, you have experience and skill to share with other people. Instead of staying here and complaining, go to other places and help them and carry your good spirit. That is my wish.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
Yes, Japan has already given the world a wonderful example of being able to rise from the ashes. You are now part of the G-8, the big ones! Many many countries are devastated as you here were devastated by the atom bomb. Devastated by poverty, by disease, by an international economic system that is fundamentally unjust. I would hope that your experience of the injustice of atom bombs falling on you would give you the passion which you already have for wanting to help others rise from their ashes. For instance, Japan ought to be on the forefront in saying to cancel all unjust international debts that many countries bear as a burden. I think that would be one of the most crucial services that you can perform to help have a more just international system. But I hope, too, that Japan would not support unjust wars. The war in Iraq was unjust, was immoral.
Betty Williams:
There’s an old expression in Ireland that says, “I thought I was very poor because I had no shoes. And then I met a man who had no feet.” I’m a very flawed human being. I’m not perfect. I’m a sinner. But when you go out into the world and you hold a child that is dying, the heaviest bone is the skull so you have to support this little head. While the eyes are looking up at you, they are actually saying to you, “Why? Why is this happening to me?”
In Japan, you are now the second biggest economy, which is phenomenal to think where you’ve come from and where you are. Go out and look for one individual. One is a huge number. If you can help one individual, one child you will then help ten. Because in the circle of that one person, there will be ten others that that one will educate.
Talking about peace is wonderful and praying for peace is wonderful and marching for peace is wonderful, but talking about peace all the time means nothing unless you’re actually working on a daily basis to help the lives of your brothers and sisters—because that is what they are. As Bishop Tutu said we are all one human family. We shouldn’t even say Japanese or Irish or Chinese.
Find that one person and in that one person you will change ten others.
The Dalai Lama:
Since my first visit here in ’67, I got the impression you have modern technology and facilities. And also you have a long tradition, including Shintoism, of respecting nature. And also you have the Buddhist tradition and some other traditions. So you have modern facilities--science and technology--that provides comfort for the physical but not for the mind. The ancient traditions, the spiritual traditions give us mental comfort. After all, we are not part of the machine. If our body is like a machine with no feeling, then material facilities are enough.
But we are living beings. We have this mind and experience. On the sensory level, we have money, good house, intelligence. But I think the mental level has too much ups and downs because of our intelligence. Animals have much less ups and down. So therefore the mental level has too much disturbances, which cannot be solved by money, by drugs. Maybe this is a temporarily answer, but not the proper solution. The mental problem can only be solved through spiritual way. Now spiritual has two levels. One, spirituality as the basis of common sense or common experience has nothing to do with religious faith. Now here, the scientist should also know, for example, that peace of mind is a very crucial factor.
So now medical scientific research already found some important role of peace of mind in a healthy person. And also in education, peace of mind is also very crucial. This is what I call “secular ethics,” without touching religion, just based on our common experience, common sense and scientific findings. We can teach our younger generation not only the importance of brain development, but also the development of warm-heartedness—through education, not through prayer, not through meditation. We can make it clear that human intelligence is sufficient to realize the importance of warm-heartedness.
Then another level is faith, as we have already talked about. The various religious traditions have the same potential to provide us warm-heartedness on some deeper values.
Betty Williams:
There’s a film just released by former Vice President Al Gore, called “An Inconvenient Truth,” about global warming. I suggest that you really look seriously at what is happening to our Mother, the Earth, because we are doing catastrophic things on a daily basis to destroy this Mother. Like emissions into the air, even now when I board an aircraft, I think I shouldn’t do this because this aircraft is emitting carbon monoxide which is destroying the ozone layer. But I have to work, so I have to get to where I’m going.
But each individual one of us could do something. For example, when you are cleaning your teeth, don’t leave the water running. That water is precious, maybe not to you, but think of a child in Africa who doesn’t have any. And that’s a way to help. Rinse your toothbrush, turn off the water, clean your teeth, rinse your toothbrush. It’s little things like this that add up.
“Small is Beautiful!” I love that expression, because if all of us do one little small act, like cleaning your teeth with less water, you’re helping Mother Earth. Like trying not to fly if you can possibly get there any other way. I know Toyota has now got a car on the road that is environmentally friendly. Support things that help Mother Earth breath a little easier every day. And if you would get a copy of the film I am talking about, “An Inconvenient Truth,” and watch it, each one of you will feel compelled to do something about helping our Mother Earth.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
You know, during apartheid years, one of the things that annoyed us most was when people came from other countries and began to tell us how we should solve our problem. Now you make us come from South Africa, India, the United States and you want us to tell you what to do. If you get upset with me I would understand. Now having said that we used to be annoyed when people appeared to know all, I have to unfortunately have to try and tell you what you must do.
I am actually not overly worried when people seem to forget their spiritual selves, when they seem to be concerned with amassing more material things. And the reason is that no material thing, no matter how wonderful, will be able to give them the deep contentment which the spirit yearns for.
You know, in places such as Sweden, the state provides the people with all kinds of wonderful material benefits. No poverty there, but they were surprised when there were all these suicides. Why, when people had all these material comforts? Why did it seem as if there was something lacking? The simple answer is because we are an incredible paradox. We are finite creatures, limited creatures, who are quite extraordinarily created for the infinite.
One African saint put it this way, “Thou has made us for Thyself, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in Thee.” You and I and all of us are in fact created for transcendence, and we will forever be discontented trying to find satisfaction in anything less than God.
